And NOW Introducing THICKENED Formula (yum, yum!)
This recently came to my attention (thanks Claire A.!) Cow and Gate Good Night Milk because we all KNOW that the only good night is one in which baby sleeps endlessly, and that if our bodies knew how to MAKE thickened breastmilk they would, because why oh why would a baby NEED to wake every couple of hours? OBVIOUSLY if God, or Mother Nature, or Evolution, or whatever you believe, REALLY had our best interests in mind then babies would be little sleeping lovelies, ALL NIGHT LONG. So they obviously didn’t have our best interests in mind, right? So we should take matters into our own hands, right? Because there couldn’t possibly be a REASON for little babies to wake up repeatedly. So REALLY, what could go wrong?
Excuse me while i lapse into sarcasm folks. yeesh. a couple of comics are coming directly.
love,
Heather
this Musing is directly related to this comic:
ferrous said,
April 6, 2008 @ 3:02 pm
i’ve read that some studies have shown that waking frequently is one of the ways in which SIDS is avoided. i wonder if this will cause even more problems with SIDS with babies?
not good ..
amyphilo said,
April 6, 2008 @ 3:40 pm
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
I guarantee you one thing - this is definitely definitely most definitely going to kill more babies.
-Amy
whose first son nearly choked to death & had to be rescued by nurses etc. while trying to vomit formula at age 3 days while at Children’s Hospital.
crystleyz42 said,
April 6, 2008 @ 8:41 pm
Terrible… is that stuff considered an infant formula (so it needs to carry a ‘breast is best’ label) or is it considered a baby ‘treat’ and therefore can escape the labeling?
I wish more people knew that the biologically ‘normal’ pattern for ALL humans (infant and adult alike) is not sleeping through the night, but sleeping in a 2-phase pattern with several night wakings. This article summarizes things well: http://63.240.200.111/pages/sn_arc99/9_25_99/bob2.htm
Citation: Slumber’s Unexplored Landscape by Bruce Bower. Science News, Vol. 156, No. 13, September 25, 1999, p. 205
bunnywhack said,
April 7, 2008 @ 1:06 am
Claire A here i was horrified after i found this advertised in a magazine its marketed as a follow on milk so they get around adverts this way.though i think they still ahve to carry a breast is best but i dont think thats going to make much difference. Im worried that mums who are having a rough time of it are going to see oooo it helps them sleep and think yay sleep without thinking about the consequences or perhaps without knowing them. I have emailed the company and am going to find out all i can with regards to sleeping heavily and sids connections and i will get this stopped its far to dangerous a product to be on the market.
juliepie said,
April 7, 2008 @ 3:27 am
Funny, my baby got “drunk on the boobie”, fell asleep, and proceeded sleep soundly by my side for 9 hours last night. Without me drugging her with fake milk. Hmmmm…my baby seems to sleep just fine after some warm milk, straight from the source.
Julinda said,
April 7, 2008 @ 4:56 am
They should at least say what the mysterious “thickening agent” is, although it is probably spelled out in the fine print on the label.
Most of my older friends (in their 50s and 60s) insist that putting cereal in a baby’s bedtime bottle helps them sleep. Even newborns. They’ve passed this info down to their daughters and daughters-in-law. I occasionally express my opinion about babies and sleep (they’re not really made to sleep through the night, and with co-sleeping and nursing, night wakings aren’t really a problem) to my friends, but it probably falls on deaf ears.
creative spirit said,
April 7, 2008 @ 6:37 am
I just went to their website. It says from six months. Does that mean six months on? Or up TO six months? And by six months, most babies have “mastered” sleep a bit better. And by then, let’s face it, we sleep deprived mommies have gotten used it it, yeah? I just don’t get it.
creative spirit said,
April 7, 2008 @ 6:54 am
Haha! I just went BACK to their website. They were asking for bedtime routine suggestions. So I thought I’d share my routine.
To whom it may concern:
I noticed you were asking for tried and true bedtime routines on your website. I’d be glad to share! Well, first we need to get momma a snack and something to drink. Set the lights down to a warm glow (especially for itty bitty newborns) with a fan rotating in one corner of the room. Remove as much clothing as makes both momma and baby comfortable. Skin to skin contact is usually best. Now, lay down next to the baby and gently guide him or her to your breast. Smile down as baby latches on and happily nurses off to the Land of Nod. Doze a bit yourself. Wake with baby when the next breast is needed. Repeat as needed. Babies aren’t meant to sleep the entire night long. Frequent feedings and periods of wakefulness help insure against SIDS, and puts a mother’s mind to rest. Which helps a mother rest more soundly.
That’s my bedtime routine. It’s a very private and intimate time for momma and baby to bond. I hope you share this with all the other mommas out there!
Mama Bee
Whatcha think, will they share it? My guess is probably not.
lori said,
April 7, 2008 @ 2:53 pm
It sounds like the representative you spoke to did not mention it to you, but there are some good medical reasons for some infants to have thickening agents in their formula. My son didn’t happen to be one of them, but I am on a preemie group where many preemies have varying degrees of swallowing problems, oral tone issues, and varying degrees of aspiration. In cases such as these thickeners are used to protect the lungs because the baby is less likely to aspirate a thicker formula if they are prone to any of the above mentioned problems.
bunnywhack said,
April 7, 2008 @ 3:42 pm
This is aimed at children whose parents want them to sleep more theres no medical science behined this formula. Its from 6 months old onwards and apparently the thickening agent is potato starch yerck although i say apparently as thats what i could find though googole and other people mentioning it i am in town tomorow and will be on the lookout for it to get a list of ingrediants off the back and tell you with more certainty.
lori said,
April 7, 2008 @ 4:06 pm
Bunnywhack,
I am not stating that it is being marketed for the medical reason I stated. I was simply pointing out to some of you who have probably never spoken with a mom whose child really did need thickened formula, that there is a true medical reason for such products to exist.
sheepdoc said,
April 7, 2008 @ 5:14 pm
Except, if preemies are on human milk than aspiration into the lungs generally isn’t a significant issue. Since breast milk is antiseptic.
Except, if you taught women how to eat right and didn’t induce/section all these babies for the convenience of it they wouldn’t be preemies.
Except, if you didn’t stress women out w/ weekly ultrasounds, harm them w/ bedrest despite medical science showing its harm and gave them a therapist to talk to and a nice massage there wouldn’t be so many preemies.
Preemie moms make preemie milk. So unless mom didn’t have a true physiologic labor or mom has cancer……
None of which is related to this product.
Here’s a real life example. A drug company holds a study and finds their osteoporosis medication isn’t nearly as effective as another on the market. Needing a market for a less efficacious drug, they create a condition called pre-osteoporosis. This condition is defined as having a bone density below average but higher than osteoporosis. Now, they send their reps out and “teach” doctors about this new condition that BY DEFINITION is HALF of the normal female population and wow - they have a drug that treats that.
ammamammalove said,
April 7, 2008 @ 5:22 pm
MAYBE THEY SHOULD JUST TAKE THE SUGAR OUT OF FORMULA SO BABIES WONT BE SO MISERABLE AND RESTLESS, DRIVING MOTHERS TO COMPLAIN ABOUT THE FORMULA, CHANGING IT….LIKE SO! it all makes sense but it doesnt…. pray for the babies!
ammamammalove said,
April 7, 2008 @ 5:22 pm
MAYBE THEY SHOULD JUST TAKE THE SUGAR OUT OF FORMULA SO BABIES WONT BE SO MISERABLE AND RESTLESS, DRIVING MOTHERS TO COMPLAIN ABOUT THE FORMULA, CHANGING IT….LIKE SO! it all makes sense but it doesnt…. just pray for the babies!
lori said,
April 7, 2008 @ 5:23 pm
Wow Sheepdoc. You are unbelievable. My preemie was not my doing. How ridiculous to suggest such a thing. My HELLP syndrome was traced to a blood clotting disorder.
I made preemie milk. With ridiculous amounts of domperidone…not on my own. I drank water, I slept, I ate oatmeal, I took fenugreek, I pumped ten times a day. Do you know that some women after giving birth to preemies don’t make milk at all? Do you know that prematurity, betamethasone, and mag sulfate all interfere with lactogenesis? Despite all the cards stacked against me I pumped exclusively for 9 months. My preemie never had enough stamina to get all the milk he needed from me due to his lungs (he was a 28 weeker).
Do you know how difficult it is to maintain pumping while caring for a medically fragile infant? I doubt it.
Until you have been in touch with some of these moms who are dealing with aspiration issues, please refrain from judging them.
Blaming the mom for prematurity is a ridiculous position to take. Sometimes an infant arrives early despite eating the Brewer’s Diet (I did).
Your lack of sympathy for what a mother experiences with a child’s prematurity is staggering.
ShinaB said,
April 7, 2008 @ 5:47 pm
Oh, that’s just disgusting! Especially considering that a lot of the cosleeping mamas I know (including myself) had babies sleeping through the night as early as 4-5 months. Of course, this was due to things like security, love, closeness, etc. You know, those things we’re encouraged to believe either don’t matter, or are only worth anything if they come in cages and man-made substances. So long as the bars are close together and the substances are thickened.
Becci76 said,
April 7, 2008 @ 7:16 pm
I don’t think anyone was initially referring to those who really have a need to have thickened formula and formula period. The problem was with the fact that this product had no medical reasoning behind it.
Unfortunately, many babies are born early due to intervention or the fact that the parent may not have been a suitable candidate for pregnancy to begin with.
lori said,
April 7, 2008 @ 7:19 pm
Unfortunately, many babies are born early due to intervention or the fact that the parent may not have been a suitable candidate for pregnancy to begin with.
Can you state a source for this claim?
Most premature babies are born for no discernible reason. What intervention are you talking about? I had no interventions to cause my son’s prematurity.
esper_d said,
April 7, 2008 @ 10:55 pm
That sounds disgusting! Thanks for the comic… I hope you really DID call them
Julinda said,
April 8, 2008 @ 5:03 am
Lori - Just wanted to say I got what you were saying on your posts! And although I know there are preventable causes of prematurity, there are also causes that are not (currently) preventable.
jeanette said,
April 8, 2008 @ 6:23 am
Sheepdoc is actually very believable. because what he or she says is true. This formula is disgusting because it’s designed for the sole purpose of getting babies to sleep longer than they should. It has nothing to do with preemies or reflux or anything else. Lori is going off on some insane tangent.
lori said,
April 8, 2008 @ 7:45 am
Insane tangent? This is a true issue and I was pointing out that while I disagree with it being used to get babies to sleep through the night, it has an actual medical use.
As for insane…the things that sheepdoc said to me were rude and not entirely true. Some mothers of very premature babies are unable to pump for various reasons and they have infants that aspirate. I was not one of those people as I was fortunate to have been able to EP for my preemie son for 9 months.
Jeanette, I don’t think it is necessary to throw an insult my way when I am presenting factual information.
I never said I would use it for the purpose it is being marketed for. I never believed in my baby sleepi ng through the night either.
Hathor, I have been polite and factual. I would like to believe you would not let people continue to insult me on your blog.
Hathor said,
April 8, 2008 @ 8:47 am
Dear Lori and Sheep doc and all,
Your comments about the occasional need for a ‘thickened’ formula were news to me, I had never heard of that need for preemies, interesting (of course that need is on the ‘personal’ level, on the theoretical and philosophical -read ‘cowgoddess’- level there *shouldn’t* be a need because all mothers *should* be able to breastfeed).
This is a really difficult discussion to have because on this blog we’re often talking in grandiose terms of the BIGGER picture, we want all babies born naturally at home and breastfed, but there all always exceptions and eternally special cases. I have many friends who have been ’special cases’ and when talking together we always have to say “present lovely mamas excepted” to keep from hurting their feelings, and that seems to work… Although we want all exceptions to feel mutually respected, we ALL want to work toward a future where there is more homebirth and more breastfeeding. This requires (oftentimes!) criticizing the mainstream practices of our culture and because we’re in the mainstream culture there are often overlaps. And many many chances to get our feelings hurt. I have to run to go to an afternoon of classes with my kids, but I’m hoping everyone can give themselves a big hug and remember that we should all take a deep breath and look at the LARGER picture, we’re all on the same page ;o) AND also this is now cowgoddess rule number one:
ONLY Hathor is allowed to make insane tangents.
I love you guys, remember deep breaths!
Heather aka Hathor
mamaluxe said,
April 9, 2008 @ 11:57 am
Thanks Heather (the one who is Hathor)…I think sometimes we mamas who have had special circumstances feel the need to point out that not everyone can fit the ideal because we need our own experience validated by our community.
It is very hard to go through a less typical and difficult birth and/or discover your child has some medical difficulty and it can make one very sensitive. Especially as someone who has defined herself as a more “natural” or an “AP” or whatever parent. As a mama who was told my uterus had “become incompetent” due to an infection and that my beautiful daughter had a “defect,” I know how much words can hurt. Ouch.
I also understand that what you are talking about in your comics is the ideal. Just because the ideal isn’t always possible 100%, that doesn’t mean we should give up aiming for it!
Of COURSE anything medically necessary should be available to those who need it by prescription–and thank you Lori for sharing that information about that rare necessity.
However, there is no need to have a thickened formula widely available so mothers can try to get babies to sleep longer than developmentally appropriate.
And sheepdoc raises an interesting point there may be less need (though still some need) if we looked into premie prevention. To say that we can reduce the number of premies is not to blame any individual mama or to say that we can eliminate ALL early births!
I also find this formula weird because I thought they had done studies and actually found that thickened formula did not help babies sleep, statistically speaking. So, basically, this formula is unnecessary (for the general population), ineffective, and based on a harmful idea. Joy!
bunnywhack said,
April 10, 2008 @ 2:28 am
well i got an email back today and this is what it says
Hello Claire,
Thank you for your email, we always appreciate feedback from consumers.
Breastfeeding is the best possible option when it comes to feeding a baby and we would not dispute this.
Bedtime routines is a hot topic for mums and from our consumer research we have found how mums love the concept of a milk developed specially for bedtime.
The Good Night Milk is a follow-on milk that is formulated in line with the infant and follow-on formula regulations for babies aged 6 months plus. It is thicker than regular follow-on milk and gentle on a baby’s tummy and when used as part of a baby’s bedtime routine can help them settle. It provides a warm and satisfying end to the day though is not a milk that will make a baby sleep more.
Cow & Gate Good Night Milk is not suitable for use before 6 months as it contains higher levels of vitamins and minerals than is suitable. No similar product has been developed for infants pre 6 months. Babies under 6 months age will wake more to feed at night as they are growing rapidly and by feeding at regular intervals they also prevent themselves becoming dehydrated.
Young babies wake up during the night for a number of specific reasons such as dehydration, hunger, when they need comforting, therefore providing a product that may help the infant to sleep will mean that these issues will not be addressed.
Cow & Gate Good Night Milk is designed from 6 months old and not before as babies under 6 months are not expected to sleep through. If parents of babies under 6 months are concerned that their infant is not sleeping, then they should be referred to their HCP.
Kind Regards
Fae
Baby Care Advisor
So as far as i can tell though i may of missed the point its ok to feed them this stuff as they are over 6 months old and it justs helps them off to sleep as it makes them feel fuller or as they say more satisfied not to sleep longer but surely they will sleep longer as their bodies will be trying to digest this stuff and it will take longer to do that.
Kat_MomofMonkeys said,
April 13, 2008 @ 9:57 pm
As a mother of 3 kids who breastfed the first so joyfully, then wept when my milk never came in with my second and he got dehydrated and had to go onto formula, suffered post pardum depression and that all lead to finally diagnosing the problems I’d suffered from since childhood as bipolar disorder and then, with my third, having to choose between my new found emotional and psychological stability (rather than feeling like it was this constant struggle to act like everyone else) and breastfeeding and, in the end, having to feed my baby formula, this stuff just makes me SICK.
I understand that some moms like me have to use formula, for one reason or another, and (much worse) some women choose it simply for not wanting to breastfeed (seriously… anyone who has ever seen a happy baby nursing or has had the joy of breastfeeding knows what I’m saying when I say that not wanting to breastfeed is a horrible reflection of our society), but COME ON….
Babies are designed as individuals and some will sleep through the night at one age, others at another, and still others won’t until they are in school.
I don’t feel that FORCING more calories into a baby… basically FORCE FEEDING them, is not the answer.
Here we are in a culture where childhood obesity is one of the largest epidemics sweeping the country…. yet we have “experts” allowing a product that encourages stuffing as much food as we can (unnecessarily, mind you) down a baby’s throat!
Whatever happened to bottlefeeding similarly to how you would breastfeed so that you create a “nursing” relationship, despite not using the breast or breastmilk?
It’s the same rage that fills me when so many moms who have no physical reason not to do so prop the baby’s bottle in the stroller, carseat, wherever, rather than picking baby up, wearing him/her or holding baby, snuggling baby close, while feeding.
Even after my babies went to sippy cups, we snuggled close. Why is there this stigma that the point of bottles, formula, sippy cups, etc. is to give moms an “out” from holding their babies?
I believe it is one reason we see the increase in children and adults alike finding comfort in food rather than human contact. As an overweight mom of 3 slender kids who have always self-regulated their intake, I have to believe it comes from this horrid teaching from doctors, formula manufacturers, and all of the industries that want to sell products, teaching parents that they don’t need to hold and cuddle their babies… they can prop their bottles, overuse pacifiers (not saying don’t use them, but there is overuse), rather than just pick up their child, snuggle them close, and give them the comfort in that way.
Of course SOME babies truly need thickened formula (My niece - who is 5yrs younger than me - has a baby who had such violent reflux that she had to use the thickened formula in addition to breastmilk just to help her keep the breastmilk down and then eventually had to switch to all formula as it was just so tiring and draining to pump so much. I admire her for doing it as long as she did.) and this comic was not about them. It was about just blindly feeding all babies old enough to take it this thickened formula with the idea of making them sleep through the night before they are ready.
My first son didn’t sleep through the night until he was 3mo, but that was pretty early… and then he stopped at 6mo… because he started rolling over, teething, all natural baby things… my mother in law even said… just wait it out…. it will pass… it did, at nine months. Then, he had night terrors starting at 2yrs until he was 5… then at 6 he started nightmares. A little before his 8th birthday, he finally stopped having them and coming to bed with me when that happened.
(You have no idea how many times I’ve gotten horrid looks from mothers who are shocked at the notion when they tell me that their children keep waking up at night and refusing to go to their own beds to ask them why and if they say they had a bad dream, just let them snuggle on in with them, but I don’t believe in leaving a child scared and alone in their bed.)
My second slept through the night from 6wks on.
It was his rhythm.
My daughter slept through the night at 2wks, off and on until 3mo, then she did it every night.
At 6mo, she stopped, at 9mo, she did it again, at 1yr she stopped, at 13mo (after the molars cut through), she was fine.
There is no magic milk that will make them sleep and this company is out to make a buck.