Parenting Culture Studies, huh?
A friend (Hi Antonia!) sent me this new ’study’ Marginal Mothers: The Case Of Full Term Breastfeeding And I don’t know about you, but I feel insulted already! Marginal! harumph! More comics/thoughts to follow. I’m off to plan a spectacular birthday party for an almost 7! child. wow, where does the time go?
Love,
Heather
This musing is directly related to this comic: Reasoned and Measured!
jmcqbigler said,
February 2, 2008 @ 12:39 pm
I am left wonduring what her point was? If the author was for or against extending breastfeeding. I guess that it just is not possible to have a nautral baby lead relationship or that we ask to much and should settle for less? I think most mams find their happy medium between what they need and what is best for the baby, Hopefully with a bit more focus on the baby. After all it only last for a short time but she makes it seem like the problems last forever and the mom is always going to feel run down and at the beck and call of their baby. Although it is too bad that the majority are still middle class educated women I wish there was more across the board. It always makes me sad that those who need to nurse because they cannot afford formula are the ones bottle feeding. That they do not get the support they need.
mamaluxe said,
February 2, 2008 @ 6:01 pm
I found her snide commentary very “unscientific,” despite her lambasting another anthropologist for the same thing. I considered majoring in anthropology in college and changed my mind quite quickly.
Also annoying is her dismissal of the benefits of attachment parenting by claiming there is a lack of evidence. I’ve seen quite a few studies that show convincing benefits.
In general, she just sounds so contemptuous–the idea that we cherry pick what is natural and what isn’t–the point is that we choose what is supported by science, by thousands of years of evolution, AND what feels right.
Shannon said,
February 2, 2008 @ 7:33 pm
I was also confused about her “conclusion.” (What was up with all the quotation marks?)
So, breastfeeding past 6 months is too difficult for mothers in our culture (based on her observance of a multitude of mothers who are successfully doing it), but instead of advocating for more support for mothers, she thinks weaning will fix things. Like sleep! I *just* shared this at my LLL meeting yesterday (oops, my bias is showing!):
“Breastfed babies sleep less than their bottle-fed counterparts, but breastfeeding mothers who cosleep average more time asleep than do bottlefeeding mothers. An additional finding supports previous research indicating that the average sleep amount for a 4-week-old infant is about 14 hours in 24, not the 16-20 previously asserted.” (Quillin, S.I.M. & Glenn, L.L. Interaction between feeding method and co-sleeping on matern a l -n e w b o rn sleep. JOGNN 04-9/10;33(5): 580-88.)
thepooka said,
February 3, 2008 @ 1:03 am
I love how she labels feeding an infant when they get hungry “Romantic” and expecting them to wait until a time on a clock “Reasoned”.
I couldn’t even read past that, because I was afraid whatever her problem is might be catching.
mum-raa said,
February 3, 2008 @ 3:01 am
What?! I can’t believe this woman is doing a phD. I’ve never read such rambling, inconclusive drivel, poorly researched, poorly backed-up, with plenty of bad grammar to boot. What is her point? More than once she mentions something , only to follow it by adding that it’s beyond the scope of the paper to go into it. What IS the scope of the paper? WHAT IS HER POINT?!!!!! From a British perspective, my gut reaction is that she has watched an appalling documentary about a year ago in the UK called ‘Extreme Breastfeeding’ and a comedy series called ‘Little Britain’ which she mentions in her ‘paper’ and has based her phD on this! My 5 year old could write a more in-depth, useful article on the subject. The woman’s an insult, to womankind and to phD students.
Sanity8080 said,
February 3, 2008 @ 7:17 am
I’ve always wondered why it was that the poorest of the poor, the ones that could really benefit from the fact that breastmilk is FREE, were the ones who were bottlefeeding. Yes food stamps covers it, but wouldn’t those food stamps be better spent buying food for the rest of your household so you can make adequate milk for your infant? Yes, WIC will cover formula, but only if you are not nursing. And if you ARE nursing, WIC will pay for carrots, tuna, extra milk for you. It just doesn’t make sense to me. Carrots, tuna and milk are cheaper than a can of effing formula….
Eleni said,
February 3, 2008 @ 7:56 am
Some of what Charlotte wrote is true. There is little support (e.g., alloparents) for nurturing children the AP way in modern industrialized countries. It would be great if there was. I differ from her though. I don’t want to rely on manmade solutions, even if these are evidence of man’s incredible ability to adapt. Just because humans invented something doesn’t mean it’s a good solution. Maybe Charlotte should entertain the notion that women involved in breastfeeding are actually adapting to *something,* and then she should figure out what that is. Are extreme breastfeeders in fact early adapters? Or are just fringe radicals struggling with outcast-identity issues?
Having said that, it would be helpful if there was more science for all of us, Charlotte included, to rely on. Her observations are constrained by what she knows, and she’s probably some smart young 20-something getting her doctorate at Cambridge who can only rely on what science tells her (until she experiences childrearing firsthand). There is no evidence that children in the industrialized world who are raised AP-style are better off than peers who were breastfed for 1 year but otherwise were birthed by c-section, transported in strollers, and placed in cribs. Indeed, I know plenty of perfectly wonderful mothers with great kids who did the latter. We need more research.
Finally, just an observation. What gives with UK and Australian coverage of AP practices? Why do they always associate breastfeeding, co-sleeping, babywearing, etc. with “permissive parenting?” That drives me crazy.
mamaluxe said,
February 3, 2008 @ 11:06 am
Eleni,
I’m surprised you would say there is NO evidence. Sure, more research is always great, but there are studies that say just that–one can take issue with the methods and conclusions, certainly. Social sciences are always a little tricky in terms of hard “proof,” but I don’t think you can say there is NO evidence.
I have seen several studies (and just Google and you’ll see them) that claim a correlation between AP practices and a whole host of benefits (less often in trouble, better school performance, less likely to suffer from depression, etc.).
The “permissive parenting” thing got me, too, though, it really feeds into this idea that AP-raised children are “spoiled.”
typeogirl999 said,
February 3, 2008 @ 11:33 am
That woman is not too bright, sorry to say. She has no credentials, her sources are limited and biased, and she is obviously just trying to reason away her own guilt for not breastfeeding. This paper was written for a class, and it’s sad that someone at CAMBRIDGE is doing a worse job at their research paper than someone (me) doing one as a second-year community college student. Hmph! (Not to toot my own horn, but it’s true, you can read my paper if you like.) And besides, this is for the department of ANTHROPOLOGY, not medicine or psychology or anything that is even really applicable to scientific research on breastfeeding mothers and infants. Sorry to be so insulting, but academically and scientifically, this paper has no merit whatsoever.
mamaluxe said,
February 3, 2008 @ 11:59 am
Just one note actually in her defense (though I do think the ideas are bunk):
The document is notes from a talk, not an actually dissertation or paper, I believe. And so it isn’t entirely fair to hold it to the same exacting standards (of grammar, etc) as a piece she is publishing or has published.
Robyn L. Coburn said,
February 3, 2008 @ 4:19 pm
I stopped reading very quickly because I suspected lousy science.
She used the phrase “begs the question” in the introductory paragraph. She used it wrongly - even for a lecture.
People use this phrase colloquially to mean “inspires one to ask a question.” That is fine for everyday use, I guess. Language develops and changes in response to usage.
BUT in scientific discourse that phrase has a totally different meaning. It means essentially “makes a beggar of the question under consideration” - it means that investigation has been titled and expressed in such a way as to encode assumptions that lead to a particular result.
For example to say “What are the negative effects of blah blah on thus and such” assumes there are negative effects. “How does the blah blah affect thus and such..” still begs the primary question which should be “Does blah blah have any effect on thus and such..” Her study title does it if you notice.
If there is incorrect use of scientific terms right at the beginning of the paper, it doesn’t bode well for the quality of the science in the study.
It’s a bit of pet peeve of mine, that “begs the question” phrase.
Robyn L. Coburn
janaki said,
February 3, 2008 @ 6:55 pm
Dang, I with Adobe was working on my computer! For some reason it won’t let me open pdf’s!!
wiffersnapper said,
February 3, 2008 @ 7:01 pm
OK… so we’re saying that because mankind invents something, it must be better than “Nature’s Way”? If that’s the case, then please explain to me why my daughter, breastfed for 13 months, (and the first 6 exclusively at her request…er, demand…er, loud cry!) has not caused me to miss a single day of work in two years? Why, after I wore her almost nonstop for the first eight months, she now accepts my comings and goings with the utter fearlessness of someone who knows that her mommy will ALWAYS be there for her? My friend, who formula-fed her daughter (who is almost the same age as mine) misses work at least once a month for various illnesses and has major battles dropping her off at daycare.
Heck, if we’re following this woman’s logic, then we should just go back to having babies by taking the laboring woman to the hospital, knocking her out with ether, cutting a nice, big episiotmy, and yanking the baby out with forceps. Man’s way is better, right?
esper_d said,
February 3, 2008 @ 10:26 pm
it seems to me as though she was researching it, and not allowed to put her opinion??? (to those who are confused on her side of things)
valcica said,
February 4, 2008 @ 4:57 am
It blows my mind how some people look down at anyone who is doing something considered extraordinary for their CHILD. As if a child is not worth it. Why don’t they study a group of med or law students, their sleep patterns, their commitment and their complaints and then conclude that they are abnormal for doing what they are doing, that anyone normal would quit and so should they, if they want to be considered normal. But no, such a diploma is worth it, a child on the other hand, isn’t. Blah.
Julinda said,
February 4, 2008 @ 6:47 am
Not allowed to put her opinion? I thought it was almost all opinion. Did I miss scientific facts?
To be honest, I don’t parent the way I do because it is scientifically better, even though I am really big on “logic.” I did start breastfeeding because I kept reading that it was the best for the baby but I kept doing it because it was very important to my child. I let my kids sleep w/me because they sleep better that way (and therefore so do I). I do sort of feel very different from the mainstream in a way, because I try to parent according to my children’s individual needs and timetables, rather than going by “expert opinion” as to what they should do/stop doing when, how I should care for them, or whatever. And you know, those experts, whether it’s Dr. Sears or that Ezzo guy, are just sharing their personal opinions formed out of their own experiences (childhood, education, work, parenting, etc.).
Becci76 said,
February 4, 2008 @ 4:32 pm
I believe she is simple one of those women who just don’t yet understand how breastfeeding impacts a baby and a mother’s life! I had my first two babies when I was quite a bit younger and did not breastfeed them for any measure of time worth mentioning. Years later, I breastfed my third exclusively until 15 months when I was about three months pregnant with my fourth. (Makes me sad, he isn’t interested anymore). I would NEVER have known how wonderful the difference in babies were until I saw the difference in my own babies. My thirdborn has never been sick really other than the junk the older two bring around from their friends and nothing major at that.
But I almost felt the same way in that I didn’t want to be defined by my “baby caring” role and didn’t realize until breastfeeding and becoming an “attached” parent how much I missed and didn’t understand about how the world works.
Some people just don’t get it. Some of us come around, some of us don’t. It is sad and I feel enormous guilt for not knowing what I know now as a more experienced and better educated parent. Hopefully she is just ignorant and we can forgive her. Hopefully she is not reproducing right now though!! It is a sad time to be this uneducated–I feel for her silliness.
sheepdoc said,
February 4, 2008 @ 5:45 pm
The humans change infant feeding because they can line, reminds me of Dr. Who. They had a great show where the humans have taken a _one way_ trip down a gravity well “Because they could.” to study it, “Because it was there.” The Dr. gives them a great big hug and kiss, says, “I love humans.” and then tries to get the heck out of there because having had a few thousand years of experience more than the humans he know that doing something dangerous and stupid, just, “because you can.” is well, dangerous and stupid.
As it turns out it happened to be a trap keeping Satan penned up. And that lovely human curiosity unchecked by impulse control set him free.
nataliebassoon said,
February 4, 2008 @ 6:34 pm
I have to agree with you all; I’m not really sure what her point is, but one valid point I think she makes is that the modern version of a nursing mother lacks needed support which would have been more forthcoming in past societies. Today we are often very isolated from one another. It seems that we nursing mothers should first and foremost provide that support to other women however we can while recognizing that many mothers who want to breastfeed exclusively find themselves using formula due to this lack of support- and being judgmental toward them usually makes them move farther away from breastfeeding rather than moving towards it. I am exclusively breastfeeding my 4-month old daughter but if my circumstances were different, I don’t know if this would be the case. I’m able to bring my daughter with me to my part-time job, and my husband takes care of the baby while I go to school- he brought her to me between classes last semester so I could feed her. Sometimes I feel guilty that I’m not able to take care of her 100% of the time but I recognize that I’m doing the best I can under our particular circumstances. What are some of the ways we can provide support for other nursing mothers, and what are some kinds of support you wish you had available to you when you first started breastfeeding? Now that my daughter and I have a positive, working breastfeeding relationship, I want to nurse all my children, but what are some ways we could help make that “success” more accessible to other women within our cultural context? Wow, maybe one of you should write a research paper on these questions!
valcica said,
February 4, 2008 @ 9:42 pm
Humans change infant feeding because they can, but women also breastfeed because they can, they have functional mammary glands, she seems to have missed that one. People climb mountains because they can and because they are there. A really good book on why people manipulate infant feeding and other issues concerning breastfeeding is The Politics of Breastfeeding. It is said there that when it became important to have a lot of children, because people started growing food and needed more people to work on the fields, there was more (successful) pressure to wean, since breastfeeding and all the hormones that go with it lowers fertility.
I think that women have more support now then they have had in the last 100 years, I think they are becoming stronger with all the birth and breastfeeding movements and are demanding support that they know they should get much more than before, when what they did was more at the expense of their babies. With all the information going around and LLL and internet communities, it is easy to get support for breastfeeding.
cordeliasmommy said,
February 4, 2008 @ 10:20 pm
I had written to Ms. Faircloth, told her about Hathor’s website, and referred her to one of my favorite articles about attachment parenting from Mothering Magazine 4 and half years ago. Below is her response and my letter (well, email) to her:
Dear Rebecca,
Thank you for your email - and for the reference to the Mothering Magazine article, which is full of useful references. It’s helpful to have so much research collected in one place.
I am sorry that you felt insulted by my paper; this was never my intention. I am simply trying to grapple with some of the paradoxes that I saw during my fieldwork last year. My PhD is a work-in-progress, so your input is very welcome as my analysis develops.
With all best wishes,
Charlotte
On Feb 2 2008, Rebecca wrote:
Hello Ms. Faircloth,
My name is Rebecca. I live in the Los Angeles area, CA, USA. I am an active member of LLL. I practice attachment parenting. I still breast feed my 4 and a half year old daughter, and we also co-sleep. I plan on doing both those things until she is ready to stop. I was reading one of my favorite websites, www.thecowgoddess.com when I came across a link to your study. That website is run by a mother who is a fervent supporter of anything attachment or natural parenting, and she draws/writes comics on those topics. Her latest topic is your study, which someone sent to her. Needless to say, the cow goddess, Hathor, is greatly insulted by your study, as am I. It is very patronizing, to say the least. But, I do not have the energy to engage in an argument with you over what I know in my heart, and is backed up by science, is doing the right thing for my child. I have however attached a link to an article from the July 2003 issue of Mothering Magazine, which supports natural family living. I often refer new moms, who are looking for a way to validate their parenting philosophies on their husbands or other family or friends, to this article. Read it and take from it what you will.
sincerely,
Rebecca
http://www.mothering.com/articles/new_baby/bonding/science-of-attachment.html
mum-raa said,
February 5, 2008 @ 2:59 am
well done rebecca for contacting charlotte faircloth directly - i was thinking that instead of basically being very harsh about her behind her back, i should have taken the issue up with her. i hope she has looked at our favourite website and taken on a few (a million) points that hadn’t occurred to her before. who knows, as she says her phD is still a work in progress her eyes may be opened! let’s hope so anyway. well done!
Liina nurgatagune » mitmeid mõtteid said,
February 5, 2008 @ 3:55 am
[…] Hathori juurest viite ühele ettekandele, mis paelus tõsiselt minu […]
amyphilo said,
February 5, 2008 @ 9:11 am
Doubting that this author has kids. It would be really interesting to find that out. She sounds like an alien describing Earthlings to her robot.
mamaluxe said,
February 5, 2008 @ 2:39 pm
She’ll probably look at our comments and think we just don’t understand academia and that’s why we missed her “point.”
I do understand that her Ph.D. is a work in progress and I understand the Romantic/Rational dichotomy is not really a value judgment in and of itself. I also understand the use of marginal in this context to be a descriptor of our minority position in society, and also not explicitly a value judgment.
But what bothers me is her blanket statements that are not even true–claiming there is no evidence supporting these choices.
I do think she has a point that, as parents, and especially as AP parents, we wrap a lot of our identity up in our motherhood.
However, I think she ultimately misses the point of the philosophy of AP and the myriad of complex reasons why women breastfeed beyond 6 months and beyond 1 year.
I keep hoping there was some sort of quantitative or qualitative research on the slides that would have illuminated her discussion. But from her notes, it just seems like a platform to make breastfeeding moms seem somewhat silly.
Daughter said,
February 7, 2008 @ 10:42 am
Why is it that this author seems to believe that co-sleeping and extended breastfeeding lead to less sleep among mothers? She made a comment about the mothers at the LLL meeting “competing” about who was more tired, as if it were a badge of honor. This echoes an humorous article I read in a parenting magazine recently, comparing the “drill sargeant” sleep trainers versus the “sleep-deprived” extended breastfeeding co-sleepers. (The article was trying to encourage parents on both sides of the debate to leave each other alone about their parenting choices. My point here is that the author also seems to believe that extended breast-feeding and co-sleeping automatically lead to less sleep).
Am I alone in saying that the opposite has been the case for me? Yes, I’m tired, but that’s because I have an active toddler who keeps me on my toes all day. It’s certainly NOT because she still nurses and co-sleeps. I find that nursing settles my daughter down, and co-sleeping results in fewer sleep battles, and therefore, most of the time I get a pretty good night’s sleep.
Julinda said,
February 8, 2008 @ 6:07 am
Heck, yes, a lot of my identity is tied to motherhood. I think that’s always been true of women, but the feminist movement (which I support in many ways) and our modern culture (some of which I’m not so big on) have made it less acceptable.
soulgasm said,
February 8, 2008 @ 7:55 am
Y’know, I don’t think most women make parenting choices based on some romanticized, idealized image of pre-historic man; I think we make choices because they work.
I don’t think Ms Faircloth meant to be condscending, I think she was working from a faulty thesis of sorts, in implying that we breastfeed/ co-sleep/ attachment parent because we’re trying to recapture some mythical utopian era of parenting, or trying to get “back to nature.
I think that, as a feeding behavior, breastfeeding and extended breastfeeding falls into the same category as eating broccoli and avoiding sodas. You know, um, good nutrition.
Julinda said,
February 11, 2008 @ 6:03 am
Rebecca - Just wanted to throw in a thanks for the link to the Mothering article. Not the first time I’ve been to that magazine’s site, but it reminded me I ought to subscribe to it. (Except I don’t know when I’d find time to read it.)