Embarrassing Article by Carrie Friedman
In Newsweek an article called Stop Setting Alarms on My Biological Clockjust came across my desk:
So why don’t I have kids or even the inkling right now? It’s because of you. Yes, you: the fanatical mothers of the world. It may seem like ages ago now, but you weren’t always like this. You, too, were sneering at the obnoxious parents who brought their infants to fancy, adult, nighttime restaurants or R-rated movies and let them carry on, ruining things for other patrons. You’ve been terrible advertising for the club that you so desperately need others to join.
It was sent to me from Megan M. thanks Megan!
Have you read the newest “My Turn”? Yet another mother bashing article. We’re all just a bunch of diaper rash obsessed nitwits, wasting our educations, giving up our lives and trying to recruit other women into our cult. Because what the world really needs is someone telling mothers that they just aren’t good enough.
I’d love to hear your perspective on this one.
Thanks.
Megan M.
And though I’m still on vacation I do plan on doing yet another comic on it…that article is just begging for a response ;o)
Love,
Heather
sewathomemama said,
July 26, 2007 @ 12:50 pm
oh poor, sweet carrie friedman! you misunderstood us! it’s not that we’re wondering when you will have children because we want to share with you the joy that childbearing truly is - we’re actually wondering when you will have kids because we want to know when we can start judging & criticising your every move & rolling our eyes at your mismanaged spawn! we apologize for the mixup.
(feel free not to have a baby, i don’t care!)
janaki said,
July 26, 2007 @ 12:56 pm
Wow, I’m so sorry, I forgot that I completely lost all rights to step out the door when I had my baby girl! It’s ok, she doesn’t have to have kids. We’ll just have more!
angelofthenorth said,
July 26, 2007 @ 11:49 pm
It’s not mama bashing. It’s bashing the inconsiderate who happen to be mamas. You’ve heard of Male Privilege and White Privilege, No? Well, there’s Mama Privilege too. One of which is feeling that because someone is a mama they are entitled to invade someone’s personal space, or permit their children to do so without permission. Her comments about Infertility being something someone is sensitive about, and that perhaps good manners dictate not patting someone on the stomach, or constantly questioning them. That invasion of space is further made worse when children decide to grab someone, and instead of the Mama saying “No, that’s that person’s space” it’s “oh, how cute she’s…” as if the adult couldn’t possibly object to it, when that adult might for all sorts of reasons - not least because there’s something about them that could harm the child.
Those two things alone mean that when other things happen (children misbehaving) an adult is far less likely to be tolerant.
Mama privilege meant you saw it as an attack, and something to patronise, rather than empathising with some bits, and critiquing the rest. Mama privilege is that which means if I’ve booked a day off, and my colleague also has, the colleague will always get priority because she has children, as if the things I do with my time have no value or merit.
Mama privilege is the Mother and Baby parking spaces, but none for the elder folk who are ineligible for disabled badges, because mothers are seen as more valuable that those who are elderly.
Mama privilege is not having to worry about infertility because you’ve already got your family, and not thinking that it might be an issue for someone else.
Mama privilege is always being able to find other mamas or would-be, and not having to see the other women.
I support both Attachment parenting and childfree lifestyles in my friends, and see the pain that one group patronising the other causes, because it does go both ways. I read this blog (and lived with a midwife), and I read childfree websites (and spend time with childfree folk) in order to keep up with both sides.
As far as I know, I’m infertile. I always planned to foster/adopt older children with emotional difficulties once I was settled down, rather than go through IVF. Right now, I run activities for children whose mothers have to work, and create safe spaces for them to play and learn informally in my free time.
ann p said,
July 27, 2007 @ 3:57 am
Thank you Angelofthenorth for responding in a more measured way than I’d initially planned to. I enjoy the Hathor cartoons and have the utmost respect for the views expressed in them, but this last cartoon felt like a slap in the face to a childless woman like me. How DARE you patronise another woman simply because she criticises the behaviour of some (note - SOME) mothers. Way to disengage and alienate childless women everywhere.
Heather, you are far too intelligent to believe that the act of birthing a child instantly confers courtesy, respect and wisdom on a woman and I’m afraid that those of us who do not have children frequently have our privacy invaded and personal choices criticised by a minority of deeply inconsiderate mothers. In this as in all things, I am sure we fall into the trap of selection bias and remember out of proportion the mothers who hurt our feelings or infuriated us rather than the lovely woman with three children with whom we shared a train journey or a wait in a doctor’s office. I’ll do you a deal Heather: I’ll comment to my childless friends about lovely mums I know if you accept the existence of mothers you wouldn’t want to share a lot of time and space with.
To put this into context, I am a childless (thorough choice) health professional (pharmacist) and one of the reasons I read this and similar sites is to learn more about issues that are vital to patients but poorly (if ever) taught in training. Through reading this material and talking to my friends with children I have learned about invaluable resources (e.g. La leche league) and have been able to discuss more knowledgably with my patients issues such as breastfeeding, co-sleeping and attachment parenting. I recently printed your instructions for a no-sew sling for one of my ladies. In short, I am on your side: please stop patronising childless women and, frankly, hurting my feelings.
devilof thenorth said,
July 27, 2007 @ 4:35 am
re the comic - not at all like listening to a virgin critique the plot and lighting in a porn film: more like listening to a virgin complain that a porn film in which she has no interest is being made on her property without her permission and that she’s been asked to move her car out of shot!
Vicky said,
July 27, 2007 @ 5:45 am
I have to admit that the word “childfree” raises my hackles because of articles like this. I have never encountered what you call “Mama Privilege”. I have found our society to be incredibly intolerant of children. “Children should be seen and not heard.” Nobody actually says this anymore, but the attitude is there. Children must be segregated in schools, daycares, family restaurants, and other children’s activities. As a result children and young adullts feel alienated from the rest of society. At the time in their lives when they most need adult mentoring, teens are left to form their own subculture and blunder through important decisions with minimal guidance.
I’m sorry that your friends are rude asses who don’t teach their children manners. I actually had an experience similar to the punching incident in the article, so I know these kind of people are out there, but please don’t blame all mothers for the misbehavior of a few.
night_nurse said,
July 27, 2007 @ 6:42 am
I would have to agree with Vicky; I don’t know how things are like in the US, but here in Belgium (Europe), I can’t say we live in a child-friendly society. Even on the public transport, you better slip your kid a tranquilizer because a kid making noise will make everybody stare. Kids sometimes make noise. Big deal. But I’ve never seen a kid punching an adult in the face, nor have I seen a kid in a nightclub or an adult movie theatre. Let’s not overreact.
About the belly-touching: pff, when you’re pregnant, hundreds of people touch your belly without asking first, and on évery occassion you are asked when your due date is. That’s just how people are, mums or no mums.
I’m sure it sucks to be asked when you will get kids if you’re infertile. But hey, it sucks too when people ask where dad is when dad’s dead or when he ran away with the babysitter. Let’s not shoot people for asking, most of the time they’re just trying to make conversation.
janaki said,
July 27, 2007 @ 6:47 am
Also, what people tend to not realise, especially when they don’t have children of their own, is that sometimes the best way to “control your child” is to ignore them, let them throw their fit, and that way they learn they’re not going to get what they want by throwing a temper-tantrum.
devilof thenorth said,
July 27, 2007 @ 7:41 am
“janaki said,
Also, what people tend to not realise, especially when they don’t have children of their own, is that sometimes the best way to “control your child” is to ignore them, let them throw their fit, and that way they learn they’re not going to get what they want by throwing a temper-tantrum.”
Absolutely. But surely after first reclaiming my handbag from your child or removing him/her from the cinema.
amykids said,
July 27, 2007 @ 7:46 am
I must say that I’ve read all of the responses and I can see the situation from both sides. I think anyone who read Carrie’s article must admit she wrote it attacking mothers. She plainly said, “It’s because of you…” That in itself led to Hathor’s defensive comic, I’m sure.
I must agree that it is sad that women/mothers are pit themselves against one another . It happens all of the time: breast feeding vs. formula/bottle feeding, mother vs. non-mother, stay-at-home vs. working, cloth vs. paper diapering, baby wearing vs. stroller using, pacifier vs. non-pacifier. We are all in this together. In my belief system, under neath it all, we are all one anyhow.
I enjoy all of Hathor’s comics and I think this one was an appropriate retaliation for the hurt she likely felt for us all after the article clearly written to put us Mothers in our place, so to speak.
Is it the best way to handle an attack? This is a comic - generated to make light of a situation.
I feel for women who are not mothers and wish to be. You may likely be the women caring for our children as babysitters or close friends. You may be my sister or best friend’s sister, perhaps my brother’s wife. Please know that when someone asks you when you’re having children, it’s not because they desperately want you to be like them, it just happens to be the most common question asked of a woman post high school/college. In our society, that’s what women have done for eons. Try not to take it personal. Thankfully, we have the freedom to choose whether or not we are mothers, even if that involves foster care or adoption because our bodies do not work the way we want them to.
I leave you with the quote I have on my car’s rear bumper:
When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.
~ Jimi Hendrix
:o) Amy
amyphilo said,
July 27, 2007 @ 8:14 am
I hated the whiny article from Newsweek. I thought the comic was funny! This is just like the weak and whiny arguments people have against NIP, “because I want to be able to go out for a pleasant evening (or fill in the blank) then anything that upsets my enjoyment should be removed from society.” Give me a break!
Yes, there are days when I would love to go back to the child free days just for a few hours so I could go out and have some fun without having to worry about my kids, but since I can’t do that, I usually take them with me. Yes, sometimes people do leave their kids with sitters, but usually not ALL their kids and certainly not most days / nights of their lives. So get over it all freakin ready, Carrie et al.
Logic dictates that with the many, many children in the world, chances are you WILL run into one in a restaurant just about EVERY time you go out. And probably MOVIES too!
As for kids’ behavior, I wish that people would realize that you cannot CONTROL your child’s behavior 100% of the time. Yes, you can guide them into behaving better, but you can’t prevent every possible misdeed from occuring unless you are a psychic and mind reader who can physically remove the child before the event happens. People who have the attitude that you are not teaching your kids boundaries just because your kid did something wrong, usually are the same ones that want you to drug your kid at every possible opportunity… whether it is with “Baby Benadryl” or some sort of cold medicine for nighttime, or Ritalin or Risperdal.
Wake up and realize that children have rights too and deserve to participate in society.
Children also learn from OTHER people’s children and OTHER adults, so if you yell at them, or shun them or treat the parent like they should have kept the child at home RIGHT to in the kid’s presence, what do you THINK that the child will learn? Think about being a good role model for the children rather than attacking them or their moms & dads.
jeffncon said,
July 27, 2007 @ 8:48 am
I view this poor author as sad and pathetic. I think she’s trying to 1) be funny and 2)defend her decision to not have kids. She’s stuck in between two small worlds (in her own mind) where it’s mothers against career women. It’s neither. She’s ranting and it really sounds juvinelle to me.
She’s looking for role models and looking everywhere but inside herself. With all her “years of child psychology” and other child rearing ventures, she ought to know that a 4 yr old doesn’t want you in their face. That why there’s the ‘high-five’. And if a 4 yr old’s punch made her bleed, then she’s really not going to enjoy childbirth!!! Although I suspect she’d opt for the elect c-section, since she’s so career oriented. She sounds angry that she’s not in our ‘club’. I guess it’s easier to rant about it then to just jump right in.
Being a mom is hard work. It’s something no one is ever prepared for. It’s pretty bold of her to judge all mothers based on a few negative experiences she’s had with children out there. If she thinks that she can do a better job then she needs to get on it!!! What’s that expression about not judging others till you’ve walked in their shoes??? Its not the same as training a dog, Carrie!!!!!
juliepie said,
July 27, 2007 @ 11:02 am
I don’t know about anyone else, but the little “hellions” of the world, the horribly misbehaved children, are part of the reason I CHOSE to have children. Change begins with me. With you. With whoever believes things need to change. I’d like to try and do better than some of the families I see out there, and I think I can do that by raising and nurturing my own brood. And I think I’m doing a good job. My kids aren’t fresh or mean, because they’ve been taught never to treat someone in a way you wouldn’t want to be treated back (i.e. “We don’t hit, because we don’t want someone to hit us, right?”) And I know where NOT to bring my children (R movies, fancy restaurants) and it’s more for their own good than that of others; after all, if they are acting up, it means they aren’t happy! People who take their kids to these places have a complete disregard for their children, never mind other patrons.
So maybe the author is bitter and in defense of her descision/inability to have children (one reason I will never regret starting my family before my career/financial stability/dream house/etc.). Maybe she is generalizing all parents based on the poor behavior of a few. Whatever. I really don’t give a flying fig what she thinks, if she doesn’t like something, change can begin with her.
Suzanne said,
July 27, 2007 @ 11:12 am
“As her young son squirms out of her embrace, she slips her hand under my shirt. She’s not getting fresh with me. She’s touching my tummy with her cold hand and asking me, in a concerned voice, “Why aren’t you pregnant yet?”"
Sorry guys, but if anyone did that to me, I would feel extremely violated and insulted. This is a big deal. You dont go around groping other people’s bodies without their permission or demanding answers to such personal questions. How do you feel when someone violates your space while you are feeding your child or comments on your choice to do extended breastfeeding? This isn’t how you treat people.
Honestly, I don’t think that the author is anti-mama and I don’t see her painting all mothers with one brush at all– I think she is responding in a perfectly legitimate and serious way to a certain kind of intrusiveness that really does exist in our culture and which produces these absurd “mommy wars”. I’ve been on the receiving end of this myself and it is very hurtful and counterproductive. It’s got to stop. Somewhere along the line we have to respect one another’s bodies and choices and realize we are in it together.
All that said, I will be brief: I don’t have children and don’t plan on having any. But I was raised by a mother and am very close to my nephews and many other children and am firmly in the pro-attachment parenting camp. I adore Hathor’s blog for many, many reasons, but on this issue I really have to disagree with her. it is entirely possible for someone to be a mother and be completely wrong about something. If you don’t like the argument a person is making, by all means address the points she is making and make your own points, but don’t dismiss her or imply that she is not “grown up” just because she hasn’t had children yet. Her experience of the world is just as valid as yours.
Ironically, I was in a discussion not too long ago with someone who was very, very anti-attachment parenting and very, very pro-corporal punishment who used exactly the same argument with me: I had no right to a point of view because I was not a mother and when I get over my “hippie bullshit” and have children as God intended I will figure out for myself that you have to beat them to keep them in line, etc. Yagh.
One last thing: I think the current “Mommy wars” are symptomatic of a very anti-child culture that segregates generations in ways that are really unhealthy. Women who have children are treated as though they are literally in a different class than women who don’t, and some people really believe that they are entitled to be insulated from all contact with children, which is bound to make any mother feel reactive. Not all cultures are like that. My folks are Southern Italian and children just mingle everywhere, and along the way learn how to behave well because they are learning from the adults around them. I think also being part of a family where the children are not being ignored all the time helps as well.
Just some thoughts….
Suzanne
supermom said,
July 27, 2007 @ 11:31 am
Re: “Mama Privilege”, sounds like a person who takes any privilege they can and is also, coincidentally a mom.
mamaof5 said,
July 28, 2007 @ 10:33 am
This is all sort of sad to me.
I guess when you are a mama and want to actually have a life.. you know, go out side and be someplace other then your home, you have to leave those awful spawn at home. God forbid they learn to socialize. God forbid people act like children are an actual blessing. NO I don’t take my 2 year old to an R rated movie, I don’t take them to “fancy” resturants. But I have been given crap for being at the mall, and at “family” resturants because I have 5 kids. So kiss my butt. Where am I suppose to be while I raise our “future” in a flippin’ cave?
And no my kids aren’t brats, but they have break downs, just like adult. Like the lady at the store the other day who cussed out the produce guy, or the man who stuck his freaking basket on the nuts and gave me stuff for moving it so I could actually buy some nuts. But hey that is OK because adults are allowed to be jerks. Whatever!
GRRRR!
Heather in Tucson…. mama of 5 kids!
sheepdoc said,
July 29, 2007 @ 11:56 am
Acctually, my grocery store has signs for 20min shoppers which are closer to the door than the mother and child spots. Handicapped stickers are really easy to get for the disabled here in VA. I have one right now because of knee surgery.
As for mommy-privledge (I am a full time mom who works as a veterinarian on her days off so I speak as a career women and a SAHM, thank you!!!) Yes myself and one of my fellow mommy vets do have a set schedule not a rotating one like the childless women vets. We turf cases when we have to. I wouldn’t call it a privledge. My children are 3 and 4 years old. The college student who is watching them has class, exams, other jobs and there are days they must leave my house at a certain time. IT IS ILLEGAL and unsafe for me to leave them alone. The other mom has to meet her daughters schoolbus. The law here is if you are not physically at the bus stop they take the child back to the school. The 3RD time it happens they call Child Protective Services to discuss the fact you are a NEGLECTFUL parent. OH yeah - its a real freaking PRIVLEDGE to be on a constant deadline.
Of course we get paid on a different scale and for a lot of jobs taking a day off for kid stuff means giving up any promotions or raises, too. We pay for those privledges w/ our current and future finances.
We make up for it other ways too, thanks. The day before Thanksgiving I ate lunch at 5:45PM. I worked 4 hours late at work then ran to my neighbors to deal w/ her cats emergency. Then I went to the grocery store to buy the last ingredients for the Thangsgiving meal for my extended family the next day, where I spent the entire time in the store on my PERSONAL cell phone talking to my office manager and a client about a dog I had seen earlier in the day helping them make a decision about euthanasia.
So yeah it sucks being that “childless” carrer women in the grocery store being stared at for believing she’s so f-ing important that she doesn’t even have to get off the phone while paying the cashier. Any hypoglycemic and exhausted w/ hours more to do.
But you want stress, unjustness, unadulterated TERROR? - try figuring out what the heck to do when your 2 year old who is considered the EASIEST child in his ginormous class of 10 (yes 10 2 year olds in one class and lots of younger sib boys at that) in the preschool directors office w/ 30+ years of experience w/ preschool age children goes from laughing and playing to suddenly kicking his 4 year old brother in the head so hard you hear his SKULL BONE CRACK!
Yeah people can be jerks, moms, not moms, moms on temporary (ha ha) break -but sorry unless you have kids at home you have no clue what its like in my shoes. And chances are you aren’t under the responsibility the rest of us are - and yeah we chose it but the primary live with caregiver (for children, the disabled, and the elderly) are on duty 24/7 and it never ever stops so yeah sometimes we crack, sometimes we don’t notice, sometimes we make insane choices and sometimes we’re just to desperate to care. So, maybe whoever around has got a useful solution or just a friendly smile could remember that what goes around comes around.
Thanks,
Lori
janaki said,
July 30, 2007 @ 4:40 am
I know what you mean! There was this woman I used to work with who would always bitch about why do people have to bring their kids to the store? Of course she never had children and I was pregnant at the time. As though everyone had a babysitter they can count on when they want to go to the store on a whim. Or the money to pay for a babysitter everytime they want to leave the house! She was one of those that believed since she chose not to have children she never had to see a child.
thordora said,
July 31, 2007 @ 1:42 pm
Even when I didn’t have children, I would have felt that the article was a poor attempt at snotty humour that made the author look like a child. You write something fairly inflammatory as she did, you get both sides.
I don’t recall the world being only for the mother’s of the world when I was childless, and that was only 5 years ago. It’s a big world after all.
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September 17, 2007 @ 12:24 am
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